Talk:Churches of Christ

GA reassessment

Churches of Christ

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch • Watch article reassessment page • Most recent review

Result: Delist for lack of summary style, outdatedness and prose problems. Note that the lack of images in certain sections is not a GA criterion. Femke (talk) 16:25, 15 July 2022 (UTC)

Churches of Christ may warrant re-assessment for a number of reasons, including number of issues with page structure and layout. This includes: the length of the lead; the volume of imagery (none until section four, and none in the sixth section either); sections starting with pull quotes before the subject is introduced in prose; a degree of overcite, other citation needed, and a number of overly short subsections (also in section six); also some badly out-of-date statistics (at least one 2014 source in the infobox); and a general lack of conciseness - at 135,000kb, the page could merit splitting. Iskandar323 (talk) 14:55, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

I've hacked the lead down a bit, but yes, the entire thing is bloated and would benefit from trimming. I do not think a split is needed--nor do I immediately see an obvious place to do one. It's not something I've paid attention to in a while, and yes, GA could reasonably be pulled from it as it stands now. Jclemens (talk) 02:22, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Deaconesses are found in scripture

See please:

Section: "Church organization" Subheading: "Congregational autonomy and leadership" Second paragraph

"including that the persons must be male (female elders and deaconesses are not recognized, as these are not found in Scripture)."

The above sentence needs review.

It may be the case that (some) Churches of Christ congregations do not consecrate women deaconesses. Or, that is to say, it may be the case that they do not appoint women to the diaconate. The rationale may be that women are to be subordinate to men, according to scripture (in their church's interpretation). Or the rationale be some other point found in scripture. But this article states that the Churches of Christ elders and deacons have certain requirements "including that the persons must be male (female elders and deaconesses are not recognized, as these are not found in Scripture)". This information is inaccurate in two ways.

First, please refer to the following article: Search: One of Largest Churches of Christ Opens Preaching Role to Women — And Some Questions – Authentic Theology

The source cited in the sentence needing review the Wikipedia article [24] is over 50 years old. It is clear, from both the Wikipedia article and other reliable sources cited about the denomination, that a salient feature of their church structure is congregational polity. Congregations are autonomous, and manage their own affairs, and likely there were women deaconesses or women serving in similar roles in some congregations even then, despite this being officially frowned upon by the denomination. Why?: the denomination has no direct authority over the congregations.

Meanwhile, today, women clearly preach, teach, and serve in leadership roles in Disciples of Christ congregations. The Churches of Christ are almost alone in the way most of their congregations prohibit women's full participation in worship. And the limitations and restrictions they impose on women in worship are perhaps the most severe of any major Christian denomination today. However, some congregations do have women preaching, others have women leading in other ways, and _most_ Church of Christ college chapels have women preaching, perhaps indicating movement toward full ordination of women, as in the mainline denominations, and most other U.S. denominations.

Second: This is very important. Women deaconesses ARE clearly attested to in scripture. The sentence in question, specifically the second clause in parenthesis, needs to be edited for neutrality, and for accuracy.

Refer:

I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a deaconess of the church at Cen′chre-ae,  that you may receive her in the Lord as befits the saints, and help her in whatever she may require from you, for she has been a helper of many and of myself as well. (Romans 16:1-2) (Revised Standard Version)

Women deaconesses are likewise attested to for the rest of the history of Christianity up to the fall of Constantinople. In the modern period, women deaconesses, within Lutheranism, Methodism, and other traditions are attested to from the 1820s. Incidentally, this is the same time the women's ordination to the ministry in Congregationalist churches in the USA becomes noted. Notwithstanding, the Churches of Christ is a restorationist denomination, that may in some instances, hold a perspective that rejects Christian history after the writing of New Testament as corrupted, the scriptural attestation of women Deaconesses in the New Testament itself is neither controversial, nor in question.

Suggested edit: "Elders and deacons are appointed by the congregation based on the qualifications found in 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1, including that the persons must be male, at least in the majority of congregations. The vast majority of Churches of Christ completely prohibit women from speaking and leading in their worship services and from teaching men. [include citation above]. In this way, the Churches of Christ are almost unique among Christian denominations today. The rationale for barring women from these roles is their interpretation of 1 Corinthians 14:34, that women should remain silent in the churches, and of Ephesians 5:22-33, that wives should submit to their husbands, and by extension (in the denomination's majority interpretation) that women should not sit in positions of authority over men. However, in some Disciples of Christ congregations most of the denomination's academic institutions today, women do take on roles of leadership in worship, including preaching, as well as in other aspects of the life of the faith community."

If you have anything to discuss, please share your thoughts. Let's get this right. If I do not see any discussion here, I am going to make the edit. If you would like to talk about it here after that, please let's do. I hope this helps! 2601:84:C500:C620:E06E:3CF2:FD4C:FF65 (talk) 05:26, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

The suggested edit should include source citations. Also, why include what DoC congregations do? This is the CoC article.—ADavidB 07:02, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

This article on authority for deaconesses may be of interest regarding CoC members' belief on the subject. —ADavidB 07:20, 5 June 2024 (UTC)